This week's episode is a webinar master class with Taki Moore from CoachMarketingMachine.com. Taki is the king of sales frameworks and in this week's show he shares his perfect webinar blueprint and great tips for running a killer webinar sequence using marketing automation.
The first step is to come up with a killer topic and title using Taki's ‘Four Forces' framework.
Then we have to come up with sequences for the following elements:
- Sign Up
- Show up
- Pay up
- Follow up
You can run either a longer 10 day sequence of a shorter 4 day sequence.
This will use the Problem, Promise, Proof, Reminder sequences of emails
Short – Emails out on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and run the webinar on Thursday
Long – Week Before send on Tuesday and Thursday, week of, send on Tuesday and Thursday.
Put some personality in it and add a curiosity handout. You can also add a text message.
No Shows – Replay, encore, notes, social proof, highlight video
Buyers – Onboarding and love
Bailed Early – Quick summary, highlight reel with an offer
All the way through but, didn't buy – Video to teach objections away and/or bonus stack.
If you would like to have a chat about how you could be using marketing automation to grow your business join us in the Automation Nation private Facebook group.
Links Mentioned In The Show
Announcer: Welcome to the Active Marketer Podcast where we talk about how to design, automate, and scale your business to the next level using sales and marketing automation. You can find out all the tips, tactics, and techniques you need to get more customers and sell more stuff over at theactivemarketer.com. Now, here's your host, Barry Moore.
Barry: Welcome to episode 26 of the Active Marketer Podcast. I'm your host, Barry. Now, usually, I would go into a few things like what's happening in the shameless social proof segment, but this week's episode is gold. It's a master class from beginning to end. It's a little bit longer than the normal episodes, but I didn't want to edit anything out. I don't want you to miss any of the value in this one. So we're going to jump straight into it. This week's episode is a webinar master class with Taki Moore from Coach Marketing Machine. We're going to talk about how you get people to sign up, show up, pay up, and how you follow-up using marketing automation whenever you're running a webinar. So let's jump straight into the great content with Taki.
All right, I'd like to welcome to the show Taki. Taki, welcome.
Taki: Hey man, thanks for having me. What an honour. Can't wait to talk about automation and all that good stuff. Thanks for having me.
Barry: Yeah, I'm really excited about having you on the show because one thing you said to me, or I heard at an event, one of your coaching seminars, was it always sticks with me is framework before work. So if you're going to do this …
Barry: Yeah. If you're going to do anything, make sure you've got a framework for it, and you are the killer king of frameworks. So I thought we could talk about today a little bit about frameworks for rubbing, running, rubbing, frameworks for running webinars and how you can set yourself up with a nice webinar funnel, give yourself the best chance of success. The listeners out there the best chance of success when they go to run a webinar. Sound good?
Taki: Yeah. I think that sounds great.
Barry: Cool. So maybe we start out what kind of elements do you need to include in a webinar funnel?
Taki: Yeah, so you know, we can talk about, you know, the specific pages and stuff like that in a second, but if, you know, if you just break a good webinar funnel into four steps. It's really straightforward, Barry. It's kind of applied common sense. There are four separate little campaigns that we're going to run. We're going to need a signup campaign, which is, you know, how do we get people to register. So basically, it goes, sign up, show up, pay up, follow up, right?
Taki: So sign up is how do we get people to register? Show up is once somebody's registered, what can we do to number one, increase the likelihood that they show up, but number two, increase the likelihood that they show up predisposed, you know, prescreened, prefielded, etc., to kind of sign up and give you money. Moving them from, you know, never heard of you to wow, this looks amazing.
So there's sign up, show up, which is you know, around attendance and positioning. There's pay up, which is, you know, all of the kind of structure of the webinar itself, which happy to go to if you want to. It's not automation, per se, but it's another great, you know, really handy framework, and then there's follow up afterwards, which is, you know, what do we do after the webinar to make sure that we kind of maximise our sales and you know, answer people's objections, etc.
Barry: Brilliant. Brilliant. All right. So why don't we … well, let's just dive in shall we. So what goes into that sign up sequence?
Taki: Okay. Well, it's really straightforward. The first thing we need is, you know, we need a great title and a topic. So if we're going to run a webinar, we obviously want to do something that's juicy and attractive to people. We're going to need a landing page, which promotes it. We'll talk about that in a second. Then a way to drive traffic to that landing page. So effectively, that's usually, you know, either email or paid traffic through Facebook is one of the two most obvious ones, yeah?
Barry: Yup, cool.
Taki: So let's talk about finding a great title and topic. The easiest way to do that is to figure out what is, you know, kind of most pressing, urgent, and emotional for your target market. So if we pick a topic like, in your case, marketing automation, what we want to do is we want to go deep and kind of I would call it their secret psychology. In other words, what are the hidden motivations, and you know, the real emotional drivers behind what's making people do what they do around your topic.
So the easiest framework I've got for that is something called the Four Forces. It may well have been something that we talked about. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was something we talked about at that event together. If you just grab a blank piece of paper, Barry.
Taki: And divide it into four quadrants. So you know, we've got a line down the middle and a line horizontally across the centre.
Taki: And what we're going to do is we're going to map customer hot buttons, and so this is less about automation, but more about strategy.
Barry: Yeah, for sure.
Taki: And if we get the strategy right, then the automation kind of works itself. So the horizontal line that goes across the middle, on the left-hand of side of that, if you could just mark the left-hand end as “Away.” Some people are motivated kind of away from pain. And the right-hand side, let's call that “Toward.” You know, people who are motivated towards what they do want, right?
Taki: The vertical, at the very top, we're going to write the word “Immediate.” So that's kind of what's going on right now.
Taki: Some of the motivations are much more pressing and urgent. And then there are “Imagined,” which are in the future.
Taki: So if you go Away, Towards, Immediate, and Imagined, what that does is gives us kind of four different places, four different hot buttons to press when it comes to both the copy on the landing page, but also on the emails or the Facebook ads, yeah?
Taki: So let's just break this down a little bit. If you think about your most people being motivated away from, so we're going to go heavy on the left-hand side of this kind of little model here. If they're motivated away from immediate, we'd call that frustrations. So what we want to do is we want to have at least three big frustrations around a set topic that we can market to, yeah?
Taki: If you think about away from motivations that are a little bit more, you know, a little bit further into the future, let's call those fears. If you can hear me scribbling, I'm drawing it as we speak.
Barry: Yeah, me, too.
Taki: On the right-hand side … yeah, exactly … on the right-hand side, we've got the exact opposite. So instead of a frustration, if something's you know, right now, and it's a Towards, it's a want. And then down the bottom, right-hand side, we've got aspiration. This is something that they want to move towards in the future. So it's not right now, but it's kind of something we aspire to, yeah?
Taki: So for example, if we were going to run a webinar around marketing automation, you know, your topic, then before we do anything, we need to come up with, you know, a topic and a title, some landing page copy, and some email copy, and this tool here, this kind of framework called the Four Forces is how I do it. So if you want, we could even have a good play with it now.
Barry: Yeah, sure, why not.
Taki: So, by the way, this is your interview, not mine. I'm really happy to talk about whatever you want.
Barry: No, man. Soaking it in, brother. Soaking it in.
Taki: All right. Cool. That's great. So let's start with frustrations. If you think about marketing automation, mate, it's like if somebody doesn't have the sort of work that you do, if they don't have campaigns that are automated using, you know, a smart tool, what are two or three kind of big frustrations that they might be feeling?
Barry: They're frustrated by the tech. They don't understanding. It's taking …
Taki: So let's call that overwhelm.
Barry: Overwhelm, cool.
Taki: Yeah, so they're kind of completely overwhelmed. It's taking up heaps of time, and they're frustrated by it. Great. What's another frustration? If they don't have marketing automation, what else might be happening in their business?
Barry: They're not converting enough customers. They're not following up properly. They're missing out on business.
Taki: Perfect. They're not following up, and they're not converting. Great. If there was a third?
Barry: Just too much time. So all this tech just takes way too much time. Not only do I not understand it, but it's killing all my productive time as well.
Taki: Yeah, perfect. Tangled and no time. Beautiful. So let's say I'm in that situation. By the way, we've just kind of ticked off top left box, which is great. So I'm overwhelmed, it's taking way too much time, I'm kind of tangled up in the technology, and as a result, these campaigns aren't working for me, and I'm not converting like I want.
What's the long-term frustration? Oh, sorry, long-term fear? If all of those things happen, what's the negative consequence at the end of that road?
Barry: Missing out on business. I can't take my business to the next level. Just getting bogged down in follow up and technology instead of being able to scale my business to the next level.
Taki: Great. So I miss out, I'm bogged down, and I stay small. Awesome. Okay, well, that's the hardest work we're going to have to do all podcast now.
Barry: All right. Everybody go home.
Taki: Yeah, let's everybody go home. So here's what happens next. We've got the whole left-hand side. We've got some fears and some frustrations. Now what we're going to do is we're just going to figure out the wants and aspirations, and all we're going to do is we're going to take whatever we wrote on the left and turn it inside out onto the right. So if on the left-hand side, one of my frustrations is I feel overwhelmed by all the technology, what do I want instead?
Barry: I just want it done for me. I just want it handled.
Taki: Yeah, I want it done. Handled. Perfect. Good. Instead of it taking heaps and heaps of my time, what do I want instead?
Barry: More free time to work with my customers.
Taki: More free time to work with my customers. Perfect. All right. And instead of, you know, a funnel that is underperforming and not converting, what do I want? I guess I want high conversions.
Barry: Yeah, high conversions and bringing me qualified leads 24/7.
Taki: Perfect. Qualified leads 24 times 7, beautiful. Okay, so we've done the wants, now aspirations down at the bottom. I'm going to … the fear was I'll miss out, I'm bogged down, and I stay small. Instead of miss out, we cash in. Instead of bogged down, we got momentum. And instead of staying small, I guess we can scale it up, right?
Taki: All right. So cool now. So here's what we've got. Now, we've got all of the fodder, you know, the content fodder we need to A, build a great landing page, B, write all our email sequences, which we'll talk about kind of the mechanics of kind of in a sec, and C, we've actually got pretty much everything we know in terms of what content should I put in this webinar to make it really convert well.
Barry: Yup, cool.
Barry: Very cool.
Taki: Yeah. So it's kind of a content framework that will give us, you know, what to pour into the automation. Sometimes, when we talk automation, we're really focused on the, you know, on the mechanic, but if we don't have some copy and some strategy around what to put into the mechanic, then you know, it's a great tool kind of looking for some purpose, you know what I mean?
Barry: Yeah, if you're not adding value, there's really not a whole lot of point.
Taki: Exactly right. So we've got in our fire campaign, it looks like this. We've got a landing page with some copy based on the hot buttons we've just identified. We've got if it's an email based campaign, we've got four emails that we're going to send. A problem email, a promise email, and a proof email, and then finally, a little reminder. Do you want to talk about dates and schedules and stuff like that? Like when to send them.
Barry: Yeah, let's go. So problem, promise, proof, and reminder.
Taki: Yeah, so imagine you're going to send four emails to promote this webinar.
Taki: When do we do our webinar? I usually run mine on Thursdays. It's been either Wednesday or Thursday. Let's pick Thursday just to keep it nice and simple and consistent. So if you looked at like a month-to-a-page calendar, and you looked at, you know, whatever the third week is, whatever that Thursday is.
Taki: I'll just look at my calendar right now, let's just do that. So that gives us the 9th, sorry, the 18th for this month. So the 18th would be the webinar, and we're going to send some promo emails. You know, one, two, three, and then a reminder. So if you've got lots of stuff on in your calendar, you know, you're promoting lots of different things and you've got heaps of moving parts, then just do a really short sequence. Literally, the week of the webinar, we can send it Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, the reminder on Thursday, run the webinar on Thursday, and everybody wins. Because that's a nice little short campaign that we can do.
Taki: So typically, I do a problem email, then a promise email, then a proof email, and then a reminder. If your calendar isn't nearly as jammed, you know, if you've got heaps of room and you're not in that frequent contact with your list, then let's stretch out the campaign a little bit longer. So we'll go the week before the webinar on a Tuesday, we'll go email one. The same week, you know, the week before, we're going to go Thursday we'll send email two. The Tuesday of the week of the webinar, in this case the 16th, we'll send our proof email, and then our reminder will go out on the Wednesday, which is the 17th for the webinar the next day. Does that make sense?
Barry: Yup. So you've got basically just …
Taki: Two different options depending on how much is going on in your world.
Barry: Yeah, week and a half or a few days.
Taki: Or yeah, three or four days, exactly right. So that's kind of, you know, our sign up campaign basics. You know, the obvious, the only other obvious tweak to make to your sign up campaign is you can do what we've just done which is create a really great lead magnet, email your whole list about getting this free thing, and when they click the link to get it, you know, your system, Active Campaign or Ontraport or Infusionsoft, whatever you use, emails it to them, but they click the link and it lands them on a thank you page, which says, “Hey, thanks so much. I'll email it to you in the next few minutes. It's awesome because of X, y, Z.” I imagine this is a video.
Taki: It's awesome because of X, Y, Z. Meanwhile, while you're here, you might like my webinar. And basically, half the video is about the cool thing that I've just done and half the video is about the webinar that's coming up, and a whole bunch of your dudes will go thanks for the cool free thing and register for your webinar.
Taki: How are we doing so far?
Barry: Yeah, no, that's great. This is gold. Gold. Taki gold. So have you found that that, one of those two, either the kind of week and a half …
Taki: Sort of long.
Barry: Or the four shorter long ones works better?
Taki: Yeah, it's actually really interesting. Here's what I found. The long sequence tends to get more registrations.
Taki: But your show up rate seems to be better when I do the short, so they kind of balance each other out.
Barry: Yeah, cool.
Taki: And so literally, my discussion about which one should I do when really comes down to how much else is already going on in your world.
Taki: And if you're, you know, people tend to be pretty forgiving about event-based promotional emails, because they know that, you know, sure, there's all those emails right now, but as soon as the event's done, it's going to die back down and I'm all good.
Barry: Yeah. Very cool. Yeah, I think you don't want to give them too much time, or it just kind of drops out of their short-term memory and forget about it.
Taki: Yeah. Especially if you're promoting it on Facebook.
Taki: So here's one of the interesting things we've found. You know, I thought … this is when I first got started, you know, with Facebook ads. It was like okay, so what works with email is 10 days, okay, let's do that with Facebook. Complete disaster. Heaps of registrations. Like show up rate went through the floor. Oh, crap. So now, when we're promoting a live webinar on Facebook, we kind of promote it for the 48 hours before the webinar.
Taki: Nobody's really on Facebook kind of there to plan their life, right?
Taki: They're there to escape it. Little tip that's been really handy for us is if you happen to be running an automated webinar, and you're driving traffic to it from Facebook, then instead of having like a, you know, webinar every Tuesday or every Wednesday or whatever, have … use Stealth Seminar or some kind of automate platform, but have the webinar start every 20 minutes.
Taki: And so I can click on the ad, land on a webinar page for the webinar that happens to be starting pretty much right now. I'll stick around, and I'll watch the thing live.
Taki: Then, you know, your show up ratings, you know, is 95% plus, which is kind of rad.
Barry: You could even put that behind your lead magnet, so if someone's on your website, they download your lead magnet, whatever that happens to be, they land on that thank you page, and the webinar starts 20 minutes later or 10 minutes later or whatever.
Taki: See, that's what I love about you, Barry, you're always next-leveling it. That's awesome.
Barry: I'm an ideas man, Taki.
Taki: Yeah, you totally are. Straight to the pool room with that one, that's great.
Barry: Straight to the pool room.
Taki: Yup. I'm going to do that right away. That's handy. So that's really nice, right?
If we just go big picture, what are we about? We're about to kind of run a webinar that converts, you
know, lots of people into, you know, buyers or triers of your software or whatever your service is.
Taki: So we're going to break the campaign up into sign up, how do we get them to register. Show up, which we'll talk about next, how do we get them to actually attend. And then what do we do on the webinar, and then how do we slice and dice, how do we treat different people differently after the webinar.
So what do you reckon? Talk about show up?
Barry: Yeah. Let's do that.
Taki: All right. So depending on when people register for the event, you know, for your webinar, if you're doing a short campaign, it might be a couple days. If you're doing that long campaign, it could be like a week or so. So what we want to do is we've got an opportunity now to make people not just more likely to show up, but more likely to, it's going to think the way you think and think the way you want them to think.
Taki: So if I just kind of break down a typical show up campaign, it looks like a couple of different things. Number one, there's usually a series of email-based reminders. You know, if you're doing the long campaign, maybe it's, you know, there's something seven days before, five days before, three days before, you know, two days before, the day before.
Taki: Three hours, an hour, and we're starting now. Now, that's a lot of emails depending on when somebody registered, but you know, if every email is kind of interesting, a little bit quirky, some personality, and has some value, then I'm totally going to read those, and I'm going to forgive the frequency of the email, because I
know that once the webinar's done, the emails will stop, too.
Barry: And you're adding a little nugget of value in each one of those, yeah. It's not just …
Taki: Yeah, I try to do two things. I try to add some value, which we'll talk about in a mo', but also some personality. I want people to kind of get a sense that I'm just a normal dude, and so one of my favourite emails is the, most of my webinars are run at 8:00 a.m. Sydney Time.
Taki: And so I've got an email that usually goes out three hours before the webinar, which in my time zone would be 5:00 a.m. I don't know about you, mate, but I'm not at my best at 5:00, and often, I'm asleep, frankly. What are you like at 5:00? Are you fresh?
Barry: I am trying to convince the dog that she doesn't really need to go out at 5:00 in the morning.
Taki: Okay. Well, this is actually funny. Just recently, I've started going to Crossfit, and I'm in a 5:30 session, so 5:00 three days a week at least I'm up, but previously, I was comatose.
Taki: Which is what normal people are doing at 5:00, right? So this email that goes out at 5:00 a.m., and it's got no value, frankly, it's a reminder, but it's got a bit of personality.
Taki: And it says something like, “Hey, Barry, guess what, it worked. My alarm,” actually, no, sorry, “Here in Sydney right now, it's 5:00 and I'm still asleep. Because the webinar's important to both of us, I set this little reminder up to let you know that we kick off in just under three hours time. Can't wait to see you there. Here's the link, here's what we're going to cover, dah, dah, dah… By the way, I've got an alarm set to wake me up in an hour or so, and once I get up and have breakfast, I'll fire up the webinar and see you there soon.” So it's just a friendly I'm asleep.
Taki: About two hours later, an hour before the webinar starts, there's an email which says, “Hey, Barry, guess what! It worked. My alarm woke me up on time. I'm feeling fresh. I can't wait to start up the webinar with you. Here's the link again. I'm going to shoot off right now to Nourish, my local café here in Avalon where I live. I'm going to get my favourite smoothie, which means you're in for a great webinar. Can't wait to see you soon.” So it's a little bit of personality. No value, but some connexion. Yeah?
Taki: In terms of what else to do in your show up campaign. Well, we've talked about personality in a countdown sequence. How about some value, right? So if you have two or three videos, you know, short videos which teach people some of the content, you know, kind of teasers. Teasers are great stuff, and tease some of the content you're going to show in your webinar. If they like the content, then they're going to be, you know, much more likely to kind of show up live to get the rest.
Barry: Yup. So you want to get them …
Taki: Whether that's done …
Barry: You want to get them frothing about what they're going to learn. Yup.
Taki: Yeah, completely.
Taki: But it just can't be, “Hey, I just wanted to tell you the webinar is going to be amazing.” You've got to teach something and then tell them by the way, we're going to go deeper into this in the webinar, yeah?
Taki: The other piece, which we found really handy is to create a curiosity handout. Imagine like a pdf handout for your webinar that people can kind of fill in the blanks on live that shows people how great the webinar's going to be, but leaves a whole lot of incomplete open loops. Like for example, your webinar might have a handout which says, “The number one biggest mistake that almost everybody makes when trying to automate their marketing,” and then in brackets, “Cost them hours, wastes a small fortunes, and fails miserably almost every single time, is,” and then a blank.
Barry: Yeah, cool.
Taki: So that's that sort of an idea, you know, if you think about a reminder sequence, a curiosity handout, and maybe some short content and teaser videos, you're in pretty good shape for your show up.
Barry: Yeah, I've seen LeadPages use that as a … they must be doing it to like the people who registered and didn't show up. So if you're one of those people that registered and didn't show up, they say, “Oh, the webinar was great last night. Replay's in 24 hours. Here's the notes from the webinar,” and it's exactly that. Exactly what you said. The biggest thing you need to think about with a landing page is fill in the blank.
Taki: Yeah, totally. Actually, there's one other thing that we did that was so easy, and you know, it took almost no effort. For someone like you, it would take kind of even less effort, because you're really good at your stuff, was sending people a text message reminder half an hour before the webinar started.
Taki: With a, “Hey Barry, Taki here. About to fire up the webinar. See you on in 30 minutes. Check your email for the link.”
Barry: Yeah. Very cool.
Taki: Yeah, that increased our show up rate 10% just from a text message, which was kind of pretty awesome.
Barry: Yeah, nice.
Taki: So we talked about sign up and show up. How are we going so far, Barry? Is this kind of helpfulish?
Barry: I'm loving it, brother. I'm loving it.
Barry: I'm sure all the listeners are as well.
Taki: Okay, well, that's important to me. Thanks, listeners, for loving it. Please send love letters and thank you notes to Barry, and any hate mail, just kind of write it and burn it. You really don't need that kind of aggression.
Barry: That's right. Send the love letters to Taki, you can send the hate mail to me. How's that?
Taki: Totally. That sounds like a great deal. So the next campaign is pay up, which is about the webinar itself, and after that comes follow up. I know that there's, you know, this is a marketing automation kind of themed show. Do you want to talk a little bit about the webinar, or do you just want to jump straight into the follow up? How do you want to play this?
Barry: No, let's talk about the webinar. I know, you know, I've seen you talk about it before, and I think one of the things that most people struggle with when they're getting started is that transition from, you know, I've got this webinar, I'm providing value to everyone, I'm teaching them stuff, I'm helping them out, and then it's that what they perceive as that switching gears to selling at the end, you know.
Taki: Yeah, and it's awkward for so many people, hey?
Barry: Yeah, so I know you're great at that, so maybe you can share some of your secrets there.
Taki: Yeah, totally. That's great. So you're right. I think, you know, one of the biggest challenges we have, particularly, is like anyone who's, you know, actually likes people and wants to help, and you know, your business isn't just about money, but it's about making a difference. One of the big challenges we've got is that we typically run webinars which are really high on, you know, we'd perceive them as high value. Certainly high content, and we teach so much stuff that at the end, people go, “Wow, that was amazing. Thank you so much. I'm just going to go and implement this for a little while, and you know, this has been great. Goodbye.” And so they say thanks, but they don't buy anything or sign up for everything, you know what I mean?
Taki: When I was, I don't know, 9 or 8 or something like that, I was walking through Darling Harbour holding my dad's hand, and we walked past one of those buskers at Darling Harbour. We've got this huge crowd of people like cheering and hooting and hollering for him, and he kind of whipped the crowd into a frenzy and he did his kind of final act, you know, probably juggling a small child and a chainsaw or something like that.
Taki: And at the end, people were cheering, and I just heard him yell out, “Don't clap! Throw money!”
Taki: And that's what happens with a lot of our webinars, right? We get claps, but we don't get clients.
Barry: Yeah. Tada!
Taki: So yeah, exactly. It's brilliant. So let's just talk about what's really going on in that webinar because it's motivated with good reason. Like most people want to deliver a great webinar that really, really helps people. And so I just want to kind of talk to that for a second, and then happy to switch gears and talk about, you know, perhaps how better to structure a webinar so that the transition is really smooth.
Taki: But if you, I mean, you're a smart dude. I'm sure it happens to you as well. You know, somebody you know or a friend of a friend or a family member or whatever goes you know, hey, you know, I've heard, I've seen some of the good stuff you're doing. I'd really love to learn more. Could I take you out for coffee and pick your brains? Or take you out for lunch and kind of pick your brains a little bit.
Taki: By the way, yeah, pick my brains is just such an appealing proposition. Please, you know. Anyway, so you agree, and you know, they take you out for coffee and it's usually lousy, or lunch and it's not that great, and you end up paying or whatever, but let's say you spend an hour with your friend and you give them, you know, they're a good dude and you want to help, so you just give them, you know, a whole bunch of the knowledge and skill that's in your brain. You know, you've got years of experience.
You just go, “Hey, you need to do this and then you do that,” and you teach them, you sign up, and you show up, and you pay up, and you follow up, [inaudible 00:25:37] going to teach them all the stuff, and they get their mind blown because you're really good at your stuff and you help them out a stack. At the end, they go, “Thank you so much. That was amazing. I'm really grateful for your help. Thank you so much.” And then they go off and you're walking back to the car, and you go wow, you know, how much value did I just give Bob?
Barry: Yeah. Dropping value bombs left, right, and centre. We've all been there, I think.
Taki: Yeah, yeah. You drop value bombs. They're friends and everything's cool, and then you go, well, what do you reckon Bob's really going to do with that? If we're honest about it, probably not very much at all. Maybe nothing.
Barry: Yeah, exactly.
Taki: So if Bob doesn't do anything with it, then he's not going to get any results from it, and if he's not going to get any results from it, did we really give Bob any value at all? Well, I'd argue that we didn't give Bob value, because you know, we certainly didn't give him any results. We gave him content, but that's not enough.
Barry: Yeah, for sure. If no one's going to implement, you might as well not have a conversation in the first place.
Taki: Yeah. Why don't we just enjoy the coffee and call it coffee?
Taki: You know? So if we didn't change his life, you know, if he didn't implement anything, then nothing really happened other than the exchange of coffee for content. So here's the thing. If information doesn't change people's lives, and we've just kind of proved that to be the case with our coffee story, then having a webinar that is straight content, you know, isn't actually valuable at all. It's just a data transfer. It makes you feel important. It makes them feel excited, but if no transformation happens, then all we've done is pass information across. So I think about a webinar is really, it's a vehicle to help create a transformation. A change from, you know, I used to do it like this and now I'm going to do it like that. Yeah?
Barry: Yeah, exactly. Customer …
Taki: So … sorry, after you.
Barry: No, I was just going to say, you know, you're there to take them on a journey from A to B. From where they are to where they want to be. So …
Taki: Yeah. Exactly right, and if all you do is kind of you talk about the journey, but they don't actually take the first step, then you know, as good as that content was, you know, as good as my content was, I've failed. So what we want to do instead is we want to help make the webinar, you know, actually transformational. For that to happen, they've got to make some decisions along the way. So I just want people to rethink the value idea behind a webinar. It's going to be incredibly high value, but it's going to be a different kind of value.
I want to give people the kind of value that puts them in a position that they're able to make a great decision for themselves and for their future. You know, whether it involves me or not, but at the end of a webinar, I want people to do something different. Otherwise, you know, we've tickled each other's ears, and that just gets creepy after a few seconds. It's nice at first, and then it's like stop it, stop it. Let's just stop tickling each other's ears, you know?
Taki: So this feels like the longest answer to a really simple question I've ever given. I'd like to publicly apologise for that, Barry. You asked me how do we …
Barry: Stop tickling my ears.
Taki: Oh, yeah, I'm going to stop tickling your ears, dammit. How do we make the transition from kind of teaching to invitation really easy? You know, kind of worthwhile and flow, and so I think the secret is instead of teaching people stuff and then trying to sell them stuff, what if the whole webinar, from minute one to, you know, minute sixty was content? You know, the whole thing taught and the whole thing sold.
Taki: What that means is we've got to be much more deliberate about what content we choose to teach and how we choose to teach it, because it wants to, you know, every piece of content wants to number one, further the sale. In other words, make people more likely to do the thing you want them to do at the end.
Number two, to be perceived as valuable content. You know, in other words, we're going to teach great stuff, we're going to do a Y stack at the start, and actually give people value.
Number three, it's got to keep people engaged. You know, it's got to have good stories or maybe drawing on your iPad or a question or a poll or something that keeps us engaged.
Number four, that it gives us the chance to show proof that what, you know, that the argument you're making is actually true and your stuff works.
Taki: That way, we teach great content that doesn't just tickle ears, but has people go, “You know what? That was amazing, but I want more,” and that's where I pay up piece really rocks. Yeah?
Barry: So you're kind of intersprinkling the sales message throughout, rather than just waiting to the end and going, “Here, blah, blah, blah, blah, and buy my stuff.”
Taki: Yeah, your every piece of content is great from a learning point of view, and what it really does is it teaches us what to want.
Barry: And I'm assuming it addresses objections that you think they might have as well.
Taki: Yeah, completely. In fact, one of the things that we do is make a list of people's objections, people's questions, and any alternatives that they could use instead of your stuff, as well as what we want them to believe about you, your product, and themselves. So that's like six lists. What do we want them to believe about you? You know.
Taki: You're an incredibly good looking gentleman, and your podcast is awesome. What do we want them to believe about themselves?
Barry: Right, and I have very ticklish ears.
Taki: Yeah, completely. We all do, if you get it just right. What do we want them to believe about your product? Well, that it, you know, it's simple, that they can do it, that it gets them results. What do you want them to believe about themselves? Well, probably that even though they've tried a bazillion things before that this thing is, you know, is the sort of thing that they can get results with, and it'll work for them and that it's worked for other people just like them, you know?
Taki: So on the … sorry, after you.
Barry: No, no, I was just agreeing with you. Yeah, absolutely.
Taki: So on the belief side of things, it's you know, what do we want them to believe about yourselves, about
your product, and about you, and then on the kind of objection-handling, you know, what are the objections, what are the questions that they'll have, and what alternatives do I need to neutralise. And if you're masterful, you'll do all six things, and if you're not, you'll just do a great job of teaching good stuff, and hopefully, people want your stuff anyway. Yeah?
Taki: You know, that's kind of one component of a really good pay up campaign, and if people want to find out more, I'm sure they can, there's webinar courses out there. If you just Google my name and the word “webinar,” you'll find a video where I kind of talk in-depth about this stuff, and you know, that'll be helpful, too.
Should we just talk about the follow-up campaign a little bit?
Barry: Yeah, so that's cool. So yeah, that other psychology of selling can be a whole different thing, and I know you're really great at that, so we'll put some links into the show notes about where people can find that webinar so they can really fine-tune their sales message throughout the webinar and get their mind right about how they sell. So yeah, let's jump into that follow-up sequence.
Taki: Right. So the beautiful thing about marketing automation, man, is it allows you to say the right thing to the right people at the right time in the right way, and that's what …
Barry: You've been reading my marketing material, haven't you, Taki?
Taki: I actually haven't, but if that's what you're saying, you're saying exactly the right stuff, because that's what it's all about, right?
Taki: Right message, right person.
Barry: The right time.
Taki: Yeah, right time, right way, then it's perfect, and if that's what you're saying, then you should totally buy everything Barry has to sell.
Taki: Because he's bang on the money. So at the end of a webinar, if you just go, well, who are the right people? If we just kind of slice and dice how, you know, all the people who have registered into four buckets, then you know, it's going to be pretty easy to know what to say as soon as we identify who the four groups are. So we've got some people who didn't show up to the webinar at all. We call them no shows.
Taki: We've got people who came on the webinar, stayed all the way through, saw your offer and thought that was amazing, and they've bought, so they're your buyers. That's kind of group number two. So we've got no shows and we've got buyers. We've got people who came onto the webinar, stayed for a little bit, and then bailed early. I call them bailed early, so they're kind of, that's our third group, and you want to follow them up a certain way. And you've got some people who came onto the webinar, watched all the way through, and for whatever reason now, either the message wasn't right for them or we missed something or you know, whatever, but they watched the whole thing, but they just didn't buy.
So that gives us like four categories of people to follow up, and so what you and I might do right now if you wanted, Barry, is just kind of think through each of those four categories. What's the kind of the logical focus for each of them. Yeah?
Barry: Yeah, for sure.
Taki: Okay, so let's say I'm on the webinar and I love it and I buy your stuff. Well, you know, we're just going to look after those people like amazing new clients and give them all the love in the world, right?
Barry: Yeah. Straight into some onboarding and some love. Yup, absolutely.
Taki: Yeah, straight into some onboarding and some love. 100%. If I come out of the webinar, sorry, if I registered for the webinar, but I don't show up, what feels like a logical offer for them?
Barry: Well, we want to get them back. They can watch the replay, here's some of the notes from the show, here's what you missed, and here's what some people said about it if you've got time to gather social proof.
Taki: Yeah, exactly right. So come onto a replay. You know, in other words, the video's going to be up in 24 hours time, or we're going to do an encore, you're going to run the webinar again. So our goal for the no shows is to get them to, you know, get them to kind of participate in the webinar.
Taki: And your here's the notes strategy or here's a quick highlight video strategy is a really nice one for that.
Barry: Yeah, cool.
Taki: If they came onto the webinar and they bailed early, you know, something came up and they had to leave or they just didn't think it was that great, well, saying come and watch the webinar again may or may not be the best match. Giving them, like if I've come onto the webinar, but I left early, then you know, giving me a chance to watch the video and scrub forward to the part that I most wanted could be handy.
Taki: Or you could just do a quick summary of the webinar and just make your offer.
Barry: Yeah, very cool.
Taki: Like a highlight reel/offer is a really nice offer for those guys.
Taki: And if I came out of the webinar and I saw the whole thing, you know, right all the way through, but I didn't offer, sorry, I didn't take up the offer, then you know, assuming, you know, it's either got to be that I'm just totally not interested, or I'm interested, but I've got some challenges, concerns, questions.
Taki: So if you built a, if you kind of figure out what the top three objections might be, and just made a quick little video where you teach, you know, effectively teach the objection away. You know, if the objection is I'm not techie enough to do this, and so you create a little video about how it's actually not about being techie, it's about understanding the strategy and having someone techie to do it for you.
Taki: You know, that's video number one. You know, then you can kind of give people a three or four video series, which has a little bit of content that addresses an objection, and then you just kind of restate the offer, or maybe you even bonus stack a little bit.
Then we've got four different campaigns for four different groups, and we're actually, you know, we're actually giving people exactly what they need at their phase rather than kind of trying to blanket broadcast everybody with stuff that may or may not be right for them.
Barry: Yeah, nice. And you know, if you really believe in your product, you're doing those people a favour, right? So it's not like you're pestering them.
Taki: Dude, you're totally not.
Taki: Like if I go, “That looked amazing, but I've got some questions,” and you come back and answer my questions, then you're being really helpful, and that sort of thing should be encouraged.
Barry: Love your work.
Taki: So I think, you know, if you summarise a webinar campaign up into those four. We've got the sign up, show up, pay up, follow up, obviously, we can obsess and get better and better and better at all of them. You know, obviously, the pay up one is really, really fun, but frankly, just by doing a tiny tweak to each of these, this is kind of how I got excited about it, you know, the first time I kind of thought about it in these four different boxes.
Now, if I can change a couple things in my show up campaign to get 10% more people to show up on my webinar, holy mackerel, that's amazing. If I can tweak my webinar registration page and my promo emails and kind of get 20% more people to register. If I can change the way I make my offer and actually add some follow up, then you can take a webinar, like I've done the math, you can take a webinar from, you know, making you, I don't know, one sale at $1000 to 39 sales just by make three or four small tweaks, and it multiplies across, so it's totally worth obsessing about the four campaigns and making them work.
Barry: Yeah, absolutely, and split testing's always a great idea, but little triggers, little levers move big boulders, as they say.
Barry: Yeah, fantastic, and I know you've been at it for a long time, and you've learned all the hard lessons, and I really appreciate you coming and sharing them with it, with all the listeners.
Just before we jump off, I know I don't want to take too much of your time here, but what are the common mistakes you see some people making when they start out on that webinar journey?
Taki: Oh, dude. There's some biggies. Honestly, I think the biggest one, it's not one that I talk about a lot, but the biggest one is just putting so much pressure on themselves to get it right first time. And so I, you know, I just say let's just agree right now that if you're going to do a webinar the very first time you're actually going to run three webinars, and by the time you've done number three, you're going to have one that's been really, really successful. You know, three that are successful, two that are successful, or at least one, and I had a guy who is just phobic. Hey, Barry, like really nervous about this thing.
Taki: And I said here's the deal. Let's just set the bar really low so you can't possibly screw this up. Let's just, we're going to do three webinars. Here's my goal for the first one. That you click start on the webinar button and that the thing runs and the technology sort of works. That's your first goal. I don't care what you say, how many people show up. Even if it's like you and your cat. That's just a win, right? So goal number one is a webinar where the technology actually works.
Barry: That is always a win, yup.
Taki: That's a win, right?
Barry: Yeah, for sure.
Taki: I'm sure you've had times where you run them and it doesn't, so you know, that's a win.
Webinar number two for him was I want you to run a webinar where the technology works and you teach them really great stuff.
Barry: Yeah, very cool.
Taki: Right. Webinar number three is I want you to run a webinar where the technology works, you teach great stuff, and at the end, you make an offer that people respond. And if you can do, just take the pressure off yourself. Like if you're completely phobic, just like turn the computer, turn the thing on, run the webinar to your dog or your cat or your, you know, your wife or husband, and just kind of go to a different room and talk to your dog. At least that way, you've kind of reduced some of the fear. I know it's getting a little silly, but that's like so many of the things we, you know, we let so many little things stop us just because we haven't made the game easy to win.
Barry: Yeah. I got a great piece of advice, and unfortunately, I can't remember where it came from, but I'm kind of a perfectionist myself, kind of a detail person, and I'm like I'm normally good at stuff when I try it, and if I, you know, in the past, if I wasn't, I kind of gave up pretty quickly, but the piece of advice was if you want to get good at something, get comfortable with the idea of sucking at it for a little while first, right?
Barry: So don't …
Taki: Totally. And so like if you set the, you know, if you set the goal to fail, then when you screw up, you're actually successful.
Taki: That's kind of weird, but it's totally true.
Barry: For sure, and if you embrace being shitty at something for a little while, it's a lot easier to get a lot better a lot quicker.
Taki: Totally. So I'm in … sorry about that.
Barry: That's all right.
Taki: My phone just started to ring through my computer, which was amazing because I thought my phone was turned off. I don't know how that worked, but magic. Apparently, they can just ring your computer now. Amazing.
Barry: Yeah, yeah.
Taki: I'm incredibly techie. You can tell, right?
Barry: Yeah. My wife calls and like every device in the house starts ringing. It's maddening.
Taki: One of those just happened. Exactly right. Thank you, Facetime. Can't even remember where we were.
Barry: We were sucking at stuff, that's where we were.
Taki: Oh, yeah, exactly. So I just started the Crossfit, and I come dead last three times a week.
Taki: Like literally last, and I'm just having, like I'm just going to embrace the fact that I'm going to suck for ages, and moving and lifting stuff and getting, you know, more mobile is totally worth the suckiness, and like made the first couple times, I had a little bit of ego, then everyone else was like you're doing handstand pushups and I was like barely doing a pushup, and I'm just kind of used to that now, and exactly. Just embrace your suckiness, and get … if you don't have any ego about it, you're just fine.
Barry: And it's never going to be as bad as you think, you know. You build it up in your mind, it's never as bad as it's going to be. So just get out there and suck. That's my advice to everybody.
Barry: Get out there and suck.
Taki: Exactly. Yeah. This message of hope sponsored by Barry.
Barry: This message of suckiness is sponsored by Barry.
Taki: Get out there and suck.
Barry: Cool. All right, Taki, well, that was gold from start to finish. I really do appreciate it. I know you're the king of frameworks and people can find out all about how to run a really successful webinar from a selling and psychology point of view over at Coach Marketing Machine. Is that the best place for them to find you?
Taki: Yeah, exactly right. Coachmarketingmachine.com. There's a really handy tip for running, you know, automating marketing and selling with webinars and scaling up the coaching business every week, and if you want to check out a webinar and see one in action, then there's probably a link there as well.
Barry: And there's probably some information there, too, to some of Taki's weekend seminars, which I have been a part of, and I can tell you they're packed with value and well worth the effort if you want to get to them. You running those still Sydney and Los Angeles?
Taki: Yeah, Sydney and the states. So we kind of move them around a little bit in the states. Sydney, sorry, in the states, we kind of go L.A., San Francisco, and New York.
Barry: Oh, nice.
Taki: So yeah, just kind of think for the rest of the year, we're in Cali, and back to New York early in the new year.
Barry: Well worth the effort to get to one of those. Taki, as always, dropping value bombs for two days straight. Your head will explode by the end of it.
Taki: Yeah, but we have [inaudible 00:43:02] to clean it up, and everyone looks away.
Barry: Yeah, absolutely. Flip charts from wall to wall by the time you're finished.
Taki: It totally is. Totally is.
Barry: Love your work, Taki. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing that gold with the listeners, and everybody, I would encourage you to get over to coachmarketingmachine.com and check out all the rest of Taki's stuff.
Taki: Cool, man. Thanks so much for the invite. Appreciate the chance to kind of talk about stuff that's kind of fun for both of us. Geeky but awesome.
Barry: Cool. Thanks, Taki.
Taki: Pleasure, man.
Barry: Wow, really fantastic episode there. I really want to thank Taki for coming on and dropping value bombs for the entire episode. I've got pages full of notes here, and if you're going to run webinars, you probably should, too. I'm going to get those transcribed. We're going to have them all up on the show notes, and that's going to be over at theactivemarketer.com/taki, T-A-K-I. Again, that's theactivemarketer.com/taki. So we'll see you next week for another episode. In the meantime, get out there and design, automate, and scale your business to the next level. See you everybody.
Announcer: Thanks for listening to the Active Marketer Podcast. You can find the show notes and all the latest marketing automation news over at theactivemarketer.com.